The 51st State Anglo American Relations
85We Are Together Whatever
Universal Burgers
Anglo American Relations
To paraphrase a great Irishman; George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950) that
'America and Britain are two nations divided by a common language'.
This 51st Hub, on Anglo American Relations or will put forward the proposition, that Britain may already be... The 51st state?
There is and has been an ongoing interest in, which country will be the 51st state and when this may happen.
I would like to introduce the idea, that in fact. Britain may already have agreed in principle and by formal agreement between The UK & The USA to become the 51st state, and may have been since 1949.
British American Relations Have Not Always Been Easy.
Forgetting about the Wars of Independence, a few other skirmishes, and almost wars, between the two nations over the centuries. We share many similarities.
What Does It Mean For The Public
When we, as the general public hear these terms, we may get a warm fuzzy feeling inside, that we do indeed have a special relationship with each other.
Where does it come from? and what does it really mean?
We are all probably well aware that we do have many things in common. The language for one?
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Shared Values & Business
In many cases we often have family and relations, that live on either side of the pond.
Shared Values & Business
We tend to share many values and cultural ties too.
We do share common festivals and traditions.
We share many business interests and enterprises.
The London Stock Exchange & Wall Street dominate global finance.
These two bourses (organized markets) work very closely together.
Recently they wanted to merge, but the merger was blocked on monopoly grounds.
From burgers to baseball we enjoy similar foods and sports.
We love Hollywood movies and you like British music. (sorry about x factor)
Tourism
You love our old towns, buildings and cities, we love Disneyland and Universal studios.
We love your chiseled good looks. You love our British smile : ), quaint accents and manners .
So that is us, as far as the general public is concerned anglo american relations are just fine and dandy. So how can we make such a claim, that Britain may already be 51st state? Read on.
Anglo American Culture And History
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The 1949 Agreement Between The USA And Great Britain
At the end of the World War II.
Britain was just about bankrupt.
The need for Britain to find a country, to carry the torch of democracy forward, was crucial.
Britain handed the baton to the USA.
This is the only time in recorded history, when a supreme power, has handed over such control, to another country without going to war? This was the foundation of modern anglo american relations.
The above process, can be likened to that of a parent; reluctantly handing over the family business to their petulant, but loyal child.
Post war Britain did not have the resources to control the vast territories, that was under it's control, and handed over world power to the USA.
This has not been as unequal an arrangement as one would imagine.
Britain still makes policy decisions that irritates the USA governments of both Republican & Democratic parties, and often disagrees with the USA on some issues.
But on the fundamentals of anglo american relations there is never disagreement. Security for instance.
This Act Of Union Happened Behind Closed Doors.
In 1949 an agreement was made at the highest levels to create and secure a 'special relationship' between the two countries in order to safeguard Britain's freedom.
Europe it was felt, could not be trusted. For Europe read The Soviet Union basically.
The USA was pretty sure, that Britain would not go communist, and saw the special relationship as a strategic alliance.
The USA Had Plan's To Invade Britain
In fact prior to the 1949 agreement, plans were already drawn up for an American invasion of Britain if needed, to protect the USA's interest's.
This was when the USA still perceived a threat to it's Atlantic coastline by Britain's empire and her colonies.
War Plan Red was drawn up in 1927 and continually updated.
In 1939 with the outbreak of war in the European theater, it was decided that the plans be shelved but not destroyed.
In 1972 War Plan Red was declassified and came into the public domain.
'In January 1949, a high-level meeting between officials of the Foreign Office, Treasury, Dominions Office, and Board of Trade agreed the following: 'Since post-war planning began, our policy has been to secure close political, military and economic cooperation with the USA. This has been necessary to get economic aid. It will always be decisive for our security. We hope to secure a special relationship with [the] USA and Canada...for in the last resort we cannot rely upon the European countries.'
Source: Extract From A Lecture Given By Professor Kathleen Burk
View Full Lecture Titled 'Anglo-American Relations: Where We Are, And How We Got There' Tuesday, 21 October 2003 Barnard’s Inn Hall
But What About The British Empire ?
Before the 1949 agreement. America wanted Britain to give up it's empire, as it still perceived it as a threat.
After the anglo american relations agreement was signed however. America encouraged Britain to maintain the empire; as it meant there was less territory, for the USA to have to worry about and police.
America, contrary to current common public opinion, is not a warlike nation, in fact, in the last two world wars; they were reluctant to get involved at all.
It is a matter of record, that Winston Churchill, metaphorically jumped for joy, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.
As he then knew, that the American public would be so incensed, that they would demand that the USA enter the war.
Prior to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour.
American's in general, did not want to go to war again.
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Bond Liked Bentley's
USA UK Relations
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Felix Liked Edsel's?
The Special Relationship Stiill Going Strong
To say that the 'special relationship' is a complex one, is an understatement.
On A Personal Level
I along with many other Britons have a branch of my family, that have been American's for almost 100 years.
There are millions of similar families.
These connections, from the purely personal, to the highest ranks of government permeate both societies.
The distinction between personal and governmental relations is blurred.
It is difficult to say where one starts and the another ends.
Mutual Support
An example of how inter-twinned both countries are, has been demonstrated on many occasions. i.e. Where one country, risks it's own security to help the other.
The Falklands War 1982 could not have been conducted without massive logistical support for the British by the USA.
The USA had both internal and international condemnation and criticism but stood by Britain.
During the Iraq wars Britain alone stood by the USA again in the face of worldwide criticism. especially from the UN.
What do these two examples have in common? Both wars were conducted to stop the expansionist plans, of dictators.
Argentina wanted the Falklands and Iraq wanted Kuwait.
I suppose a simple way to demonstrate the complexity of this relationship is by reference to some movie characters. James Bond & Felix Leiter
Today the USA and Britain at a national and international level share many common interests, most notable in nuclear power, and the intelligence services.
Art Imitating Life?
If we think of our intelligence services as personified by Ian Fleming's (1908 – 1964) quintessential British secret agent, M.I.5's James Bond 007 and his CIA counterpart, the suave and laconic Felix Leiter.
We can begin to imagine what is in effect, a kind of true reflection of reality.
Ian Fleming incidentally, really was an intelligence officer, in Britain.
He worked for British Naval Intelligence during the Second World War.
Question. What are most, if not all of the Bond books and films about?
Answer Stopping nuclear weapons from falling into the wrong hands; or being stolen or misused by some megalomaniac, with world domination in mind.
Bond and Leiter work together, to stop whatever these tyrants are trying to do.
These fictional characters have a 'special relationship'.
This is most notable in the movie, A License To Kill.
M.I.5 Revokes Bond's license to kill.
Bond still goes after the people, (illegally) that murdered his friend Leiter.
This movie makes the point, that the relationship between Bond and Leiter is personal.
Bond wants vengeance. legal or otherwise.
Is Britain The 51st State?
There are many more examples to cite, to reinforce the claim.
That Britain may in fact, already be the 51st state.
At least in terms of our mutual level of cooperation on important issues.
The 1949 Agreement which has never been revoked or repealed !
Let's leave it there for the moment and watch the movie.
Truth, is indeed stranger than fiction.
Who knows whether art has imitated life, or vis a versa.
Britain may already be the 51st state, what do you think?.
Bond Goes Loco When His Friend Felix Leiter Is Killed By A Druglord
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The Pond Or As Some Call It The Atlantic
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Shared Cultural Values And Traditions
- molometer
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The 51st State
Are You Convinced That Britain Is The 51st State?
See results without votingAnglo American Relations
Do You Agree That The USA And Britain Have A Special Relationship?
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molometer...
Awesome Hub about our two fine countries, good sir! I always viewed the 1871 Treaty of Washington as the beginning of this "special" relationship between the two...a time when our mutual interests outweighed our disagreements.
I was utterly unaware of Plan Red and am glad it didn't come down to that! I guess I will look in the mirror and admire my "chiseled good looks" as I Vote Up and share accordingly!
Thanks,
Thomas
Hello R9139,
Thank you for your detailed and considered thoughts on this 'special relationship'.
Wars always make money for a few at the expense of the many.
I am sure if we added up the costs of recent conflicts, we would find that they have contributed largely to the current debt crisis.
I agree that the far east is fast becoming the dominant economic players in the world.
Hello PaulGoodman67,
Thanks for reading and leaving a comment.
Hello gjfalcone,
There are many such documents coming to light. Thanks to the FOI acts.
Thanks for the SHARING
The 51st state? Britain is the best country in the world! …..oh yeah that's right we are governed by those who could pass for the cast of the Muppet's and basically are “ebaying” our military assists weekly.
I have always been interested by the relationship that America and England share, there are things most people do not think of. About how each country came to be, England has thousands of years of history as a nation but the United States has only a few hundred. Although on paper, when we handed over the baton so to speak we basically did become the 51st state. Although on long forgotten and in today’s world misunderstood papers. Many people believe America to be the single handed savior of World War 2 and now have become “world police” starting fights in other nations but you are correct about both World Wars, the biggest conflicts in the 1900's and they didn't go head on in.
During conflicts since the 1990's both Nations have stood together with their leaders happily sitting back while soldiers go in to “protect freedom” and all that. But all those wars did, yes we supposedly got back at terrorism and whatever other reasons are put down on paper. But both of those wars were costly to us both. Not only in the loss of life but financially as well. Both the United Kingdom and United States have unbelievable dept and all I can see is both nations slowly going down together.
In the future, if more is not done to settle both our Nations I can see Asian supper powers becoming the main players in this political game with us being left on the side lines. Unless something is done in the next twenty years be prepared to see us both becoming a part of the world we ourselves dubbed “the third world”
As a Brit who lives in the USA, this was a great hub to read. Clearly the USA has a huge influence on Britain. I wouldn't go quite so far as to say the UK was the 51st state though! :-)
Excellent Hub. I had never heard of the 1972 War Plan Red. Thanks for the education.Voted ^ useful & interesting.
Thanks For SHARING
ha ha Stugod,
Lemon and sugar I concur lol. I too am partial to vinegar on good old English fish and chips.
This is now completely off topic. Who cares lol
It's that special relationship. It does exist
We do seem to have drifted. lemon and sugar is the only way to eat pancakes. I have an unusual habit of eating raw lemons. No idea why although my grandmother used to drink vinegar. I also drink vinegar but only on fish and chips..
Hello Femme,
Lemon curd is nice but freshly squeezed lemon is just the best :)
Dropping the pancake hub in today so you can give it as go and let me know how it went.
Ditto that, me too.
I'd nearly rather lick a toilet seat than have to eat Marmite. And, I just remember what the lemon stuff is called ...
Lemon curd. :)
femme
No need to apologize, marmite can have that effect on a person,lol
You either love it or hate it. I am of the latter persuasion.
Sorry Michael,
A single memory of marmite threw me. ;)
femme
LOL Femme,
Marmite on pancakes! Sacre Blue!
Lemon and sugar it is traditional! Marmite Yuck!
I have noticed we have strayed a little of topic ha ha Or have we?
Michael,
I doubt they'll be any flatter than they're supposed to be, lol.
Could we please have them served up with that lemon spread and powdered sugar?
This will make for much better Hub ingredients than Marmite any ol' day! :)
femme
Hi Femme,
You should try going around the 'Arch De Triomph' in Paris. Now that is taking your life in your hands. Foot down and just go.
I am busy with the 'pancakes mix' just hope it doesn't go flat. Ba Boom! lol
Michael,
I'm already grinning with anticipation over the "Pancake Night" hub, lol!
If you managed to drive on my side of the pond, I'm proud of you. I did well to walk across the street without becoming road-kill on your side. I ditched the idea of driving and saved it for the Netherlands, lol.
femme
Hi Femme,
Pancake hub 'under construction' lol I'll get it to you soon. Just have to do the work I guess.
It is odd driving on the other side. I have done in the US and Europe, it is surprisingly tricky.
Hi Michael,
I've visited, and lived there as well.
A hub on pancake night ... I'll have to spread the word, lol.
I gave up on driving there. For the first time since acquiring a driver's license, I actually preferred to ride shot-gun, lol.
femme
Hi Femme,
Seems like you know this neck off the woods pretty well?
Were you on vacation (holiday) or working?
I was just about to write a hub on pancake day today! how weird? It must be a sign to get it done pronto.lol
I am pleased you enjoyed driving on the proper side of the road. We did invent it after all ha ha.
I had a time of it driving in the states, luckily most of your roads have those centre islands and I managed to keep on the 'right' side of them.
Ian Fleming, is exceptional in the written form I agree.
Michael,
I'll push my political persuasions to the side, right after confirming that I will not bend my knee to king, queen, U.S. pres, congressman, senator, governor .... etc. And, whatever parties attempting to take my firearms, and the right to bear them, they'd have to be pried from my rigor-mortis-stiffened fingers.
That aside .... (grin!), ohhhhh to be able to walk into a Golden Arches Supper Club, on the Brit side of the pond, and order ... biscuits and gravy, American Style! Woohoo!
And, maybe to go for a ride there, cruising along on the "right" side of the road?
And, for us to have Pancake Night on this side of the pond, and Boxing Day, and for peeps to not look at me as if I'd made a cultural slang when I refer to smokes as fags, would be superb. Also, it'd be really nice to order a shandy, here in the states, without me having to explain to the barkeep that it's a beer-mix for wimps like me who can't tolerate the bitter stuff. :)
I have to say, other than getting car-sick every time I had to travel somewhere, because of those flipping round-abouts you have, rather than nicely cropped corners, which don't have such an adverse effect on my equilibrium, I loved living in your neck of the woods.
And, nearly everywhere I meandered in your country, oddly felt very familiar, much like home, and as if I'd spent a great deal of time there.
femme
P.S. Ian Fleming is in my top-ten list of all time favorite writers, and the other nine are Brits as well. :)
Hello Credence2,
We only have to look at what our PM just did to Europe to see how some Brits think about Europe.
He just walked out of the 'debt talks'.
Incidentally there is a video clip of our PM and Pres Obama having a quiet chat.
A couple of hours later our PM walked out of the talks.
There is definitely a special relationship and that in my book is not necessarily a bad thing.
Come on over, and visit. London is dirt cheap at the moment. lol
Hello stugod,
You make an important point about the 'subject' concept. We belong to 'Her Maj' and as such she has to protect us.
I hear what you are saying about the Navy. What are they thinking getting rid of Ark Royal? The only carrier we had left and it wasn't that old either? A bit of a mystery that!
Hello Theresa,
Glad to see you spotted the play on words. With the little bit of unique history thrown in to validate the claim.
I had a lot of fun playing around with this idea.
It was re-enforced by the lecture by one of your countrywomen in the video clip above.
Her commentary secured Anglo American relations lol
It really is a great lecture and she covers some interesting points.
Well worth a watch if you have a spare bit of time, sometime.
Hi, Molometer, great article. Yes indeed there is that special relationship. I have read countless articles indicating the Brits preference for North America over its geographically near European neighbors. The Brits never got into the Euro, are you not still using the pound sterling? The baton may have been passed to us by you, but we have certainly been dropping the ball lately.
I have visited Britain in the 1970's and I was struck by the old guys I met in the pubs that express so much pride in how "the motherland' put up a stiff upper lip during the Blitz and stood firm, thumbing their nose at Hitler while the rest of the continent capitulated.
I hope that we always remain close allies in a turbulent world and look forward to another visit.
I suppose the biggest difference is as the 51st state we have no constitution. Brits are still subjects. Historically this was a good thing as the it meant no one else was allowed to subjugate you. The entire Royal Navy would be dispatched to liberate you from your captivity, Wherever you ended up. Do not bank on it now though.
Michael- What a wonderful Hub. Such fun and tongue in cheek suggestions along with some very interesting history.
I wasn't aware of any of the historical information, although again my focus is usually elsewhere in terms of my reading and study.
And what an interesting array or responses, from very serious to quite light-hearted. I must admit the 51st Hub -- 51st State connection was terribly clever and pure enjoyment.
Our two countries do share an awful lot, language and literature, art and architecture, religion, most holidays, and for many, sadly not all, a strong sense of fair play and of what is moral and right and true.
I kind of feel like I should be saluting a flag or standing at attention or something. :) Theresa
Thanks Alastar it has some interesting implications.
I do vaguely remember something about the Queen and Canadian Parliament but do not recall the details.
As the constitutional Monarch she does have the ultimate power to appoint and dismiss Parliaments in any of the Commonwealth of Nations, I believe. But this is of ceremonial importance only. Or so we are led to believe.
In Britain when 'we' elect a government. The Prime Minister, still has to go and kneel and swear an oath in front of her Maj to be officially appointment to lead 'her' government.
However, I think this is more a traditional ceremony, as I mentioned.
Why this particular tradition persists today, is a little weird.
I agree there is still a power there.?
Canada as an entity is still part of the British Commonwealth of Nations. So legally you are right.
If there was any division between BC and Canada, technically, both would still be part of the British Commonwealth of Nations I would assume.
The way things are developing in Britain at the moment it is entirely possible that BC could become an independent Nation. Scotland is currently having a referendum to have separate rule from England. It is on the cards to happen, so why not for BC?
Oh, yes indeed. Canadians are often proud they are not American. There are not really any people who want BC to join USA but rather to separate from Canada. I think that BC would not be able to survive and would have to return to England property or join USA. I have both Canadian and American relatives and I was born there in USA. I am glad I do not live there under the circumstances, but I have relatives there in California and Pennsylvania mostly.
Canada has her own problems for sure.
There's a lot here in this well thought out and interesting hub. First I've heard on War Plan Red which is rather surprising. Guess they had contingency plans for just about any possible scenario back then. How about that with your American connections. Your also right in that Britain and the U.S. have a very special relationship. You make a good case for Britain as the 51st in all but name molometer. Let me ask you this one question though: do you have any thoughts on your Queen dismissing the Canadian parliament after it displeased her not so long ago and appointing her Royal Governor to look after things for a bit. Thought the Royals didn't have any real power.
Thanks molometer.
Hi Flora,
I suppose maybe it goes back to the old French/British split in the Canadian psyche.
I do not know much about it, but I seem to remember that Quebec is very French, and they align themselves with France. Whereas BC aligns itself with Britain?
It would make sense, to some, for BC to become the 51st state as they have many commonalities. Don't know if it would work?
The Canadians I have met, are very proud that they are not, Americans it that sense of the word.
Interesting idea though Flora. I guess we had better watch this space.
Thanks for adding a new dimension to the debate.
Thankyou for this fascinating hub. These countries do indeed have a special relationship.
I think if anything the 51st state ,if there ever becomes one, will be British Columbia. The reason I say this is that if Canada does ever split up by Quebec becoming its own country - something which would only ever happen by elective means and not a war and they nearly passed such a referendum about a decade or so ago - that would split the country in two geographically.
Meanwhile there are number of BCers - I am not one of them - who do not feel connected to Ontario and believe that this province is ignored. There is actually an independence party wanting to make B.C. its own country already. These people are highly outnumbered.
But it does point to the fact that BC could never exist as its own country. Quebec could because it has its own culture. B.C. is a group of people from all cultures. as such, if we ever did separate from Canada for any reason, we would likely become another American state.
Interesting results from the polls 33% believe that Britain may already be the 51st state. Just thought all who voted would like to know.
Hi jenubouka,
I think there is so much in this idea. As I mentioned to dexter, the hub started as a play on words but the more I dug into it, the more true it became. Maybe we really are the 51st state in all but name?
Hi Dexter,
It was originally just a play on words until I started looking into it.
It was my 51st hub and there is a lot of talk about who will be the 51st state.
When I found these details about the 1949 agreement I was a little astonished to say the least.
Britain is a sovereign nation even though we are part of the European Nations. Our PM just proved this by walking out of the EU debt crisis meeting.
This hub. The 51st is just a bit of fun. With some real history.
Thanks You Mary,
I learned a thing or two researching this hub as well.
I never considered this before, yet after reading this awesome hub, I hope this is a near future reality. How powerful both the states and Great Britain would become on a global stand point if this occurred. Although I would never wish our debt on another, so this would need to be addressed, I think.
Beautiful and inspiring Molometer!
Hi Molometer! You always have a great variety of hubs for me to learn from and this is no exception. I don't see GB as a 51st State. It seems that would be an insult to the wonderful people of GB and its sovereignty.
However, I do believe that there is a special relationship between GB and the USA. I think GB is a fascinating place with an interesting history.
Great hub and voted up, up and away!
This is a very interesting and informative Hub. I enjoy following people like yourself that I can learn from, and I did learn from this Hub. I voted it UP, etc.
Hello stugod,
I agree the world would be a much more dangerous place without the USA. Thankfully they still believe in democracy. (at the moment)
Hello the blagsmith,
I think you are spot on in your assessment. The Falklands was I believe more about Britain retaining access rights to the Antarctic region. There is an agreement that no nation shall exploit the region for a period of 50 years. I think it has about another 30 odd years to go.
Owning the Falklands means Britain will get a chunk of the area when it comes out of the agreement.
What is down there in Antarctica? OIL! The African issues are just a catastrophe. The other African nations cannot control those rouge states.
PS Did you see the news today 11th Jan 2012. Nuclear Physicist blown to pieces in Iraq, USA & Israel have denied any involvement?
Hi Molometer,
I did not have a pacifist stance when both nations set out to put things right. I agreed with the necessity of removing this callous dictator. However, what I did feel angry about was that it took the oil to start it. It was the same reason Britain supported Kuwait and it looks likely that one of the underlying reasons for Britain defending the Falkland Islands is also oil.
It is a pity that nearly all war that is waged nowadays has to be economically driven as well. I understand why but I also feel it is not morally right to ignore dictators such as those in Malawi and Zimbabwe. There are no such things as crusades anymore.
The British gave us Americans poetry and naval legends. We gave them classics about British naval exploits in return :P
Hello NatalieMK,
As always you are absolutely right. Many people do 'buy' the smokescreen and never really know what is really going on. I think I will take your advice and do the hubs you mentioned. 'A peep behind the curtain,if you will' Yes I will write it. Publish and be damned.lol
Hello Blagsmith,
I would have like to include your longer comment but it contains a hyperlink. Hyperlinks are not allowed in the comment sections on hubpages.
If you would like to edit your comment to remove the link I can then include it.
I enjoyed reading this hub - perhaps your next hub could be about the dictators in Malawi, Zimbabwe and many other African countries to explain to (The Blagsmith) the real motives of the west by allowing those dictators to remain in power. In short who really has control of the world as we know it! X
Which ever way you look at it the Iraq war was illegal. Numbers range from 150,000 to 1 million dead Iraqi's. The new labour government was made up of lawyers and barristers, Apart from the odd do gooder. So you are never likely to bring any of them to task. The special relationship, Well ho hum all reports I read seem to indicate that the USA will be a virtual Spanish enclave sooner rather that later. One thing always hold true the world would be a very dangerous place without the USA. But they seem to have made it more dangerous at the moment.
Sorry Molometer, the film is called Misunderestimated. I missed the Mis of it.
Ha ha you crack me up alocsin,
We gave you all the finest language on Earth and you all mangle it:) The American's even have their own dictionary! What are they thinking?
Thanks for dropping in and leaving your cheeky comment.
I don't mind the Brits. They just have a funny way of speaking ;)
Great hub exposing our sibling relationship with the UK. Voting this Up and Interesting.
Hello Blagsmith,
I cannot comment on the film Underestimated as I haven't seen it. The whole WMD issue I feel high-jacked the real issue which was Saddam's miss-treatment and attempted genocide of the Kurds.
When Saddam stopped playing ball, the way we wanted him too and decided to expand his area of influence and control into Kuwait that was too much.
The kurds being destroyed was deemed by the UN as an internal issue for Iraq to deal with.
When the oil supply was threatened then the gloves came off.
As far as I remember it was British intel that suggested that Saddam may have had WMD.
By the time we got in there he could have moved them half way around the planet.
So it was a bit of a lame duck to start with. What is your assessment of it?
Ha ha Flightkeeper, who speak a form of English?
Thank for your detailed and informed comment.
I watched the film Underestimated about George Bush Jnr. It seemed to indicate that British Intelligence stated there was WMD and that was the smoking gun. I, however, believe that the U.S. (and the UK) wanted to go to war anyway. This certainly seemed implicit in the film too.
However, I was strongly disappointed in Oliver Stone's portrayal of the former president. The ending seemed as if he did not have enough money to finish it off. Thanks for your hub and your findings.
I don't think most Americans consider Britain the 51st anything or have a special relationship. It's just convenient that they speak a form of English.
Well done Cindy, You win the first commenter accolade :)
As for the future, I would guess more of the same until they build the Atlantic bridge or tunnel.
Glad you found it interesting, are we the 51st state?
This is a very interesting hub. It does appear that there is more than distant blood ties between the two. It will indeed be interesting to see what the future holds for the two countries.
molometer Hub Author 3 months ago
Hi Thomas,
I think you have a valid point. As long as we kept the French out of the USA lol
You know what they say about families some get the 'chiseled good looks' and others get the brains lol
So we know where you stand ha ha
Thanks Thomas for a great comment. Red Plan? What Red Plan, it's forgotten already :)